Aaron Tharp 0:00
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Alright guys, welcome back to another episode here at Men Explained, we’re going to talk about something really interesting today. And it’s going to be centered around tribe, and really community for men. So, Josh, and I really feel that building tribe and having tribe is something that is under discussed, and it’s not something that’s talked about enough. So we’re gonna dive into that a little bit today and hopefully get a little something out of it. So Josh, tell us your your interpretation, or what you think. What do you classify as tribe?

Josh Simms 0:53
So for me, tribe, I would see it as a group of people doesn’t have to be guys. But you know, I think under this pretext, we would talk about kind of a guy’s tribe or something of that sort, common interests, common goals that come together on a fairly frequent basis. And kind of hold each other accountable. It’s a source of, of discussion or source of, I guess, healthy debate argument. Again, I think accountability is the big one, a place where your ego can be checked without people getting butthurt about it. And I think it’s, it helps build a community that can do good. It’s not you know, that you think of tribe, you think of the old boys club, a bunch of dudes go and sit in the VFW, drinking beer, complaining about their wives instead of, you know, maybe talking about how to solve the world’s problems. I think there’s, I think people when they hear that Tribe or, they think of that old boys club, which is, we know is not a good thing, only bad stuff usually comes out of I mean, there’s still a tribe aspect to it. But when it’s Hey, what what happens in these doors stays within these doors. It’s kind of a weird thing. Because I think in a tribe, you can go home and talk to your wife or your girl about kind of what went on. Now, you may not share everything, right? Because if somebody says, Hey, don’t tell your wife about this problem I’m going through, there’s there’s going to be confidence there and people are going to feel safe discussing those issues. So I think it’s more than just a place of kids go out and go out and play golf and have a couple beers and then go home. It’s much more than that. It’s a deeper, it’s a deeper connection. Again, people have an interest in goals. Yeah,

Aaron Tharp 2:33
I mean, countability, for sure. But there’s also like a looking out for each other, for sure. I mean, for if we’re talking, you know, hunters and gatherers-from a hunter gatherer sense, it’s, this is all you have, this is who you have. So you kind of look out after each other. Right? Yes, sort of that protection. Circle. Why is this such? Why do you think is such a big thing for guys? There’s a lot of different coping mechanisms, communities, groups, efforts to treat and to kind of get around the struggles that men have and that we deal with? Why is tribe such a big thing?

Josh Simms 3:11
Why I think it because you don’t have to do things alone. I think one of the hard parts about life is sometimes as a man, you can feel pretty isolated. I think there’s this notion of it. It’s really, it’s kind of complicated, because there’s really two camps of thought on this. It’s like, if God does, if there is this kind of guys tribe thing, then it’s a toxic, it’s automatically toxic. Yeah, the toxic masculinity thing. But then it’s also like, well, I managed to be able to be independent, and blah, blah, blah, and that men do like their independence, they like their sovereignty, if you will. But doing doing that all by yourself, like going to the gym everyday by yourself going on a run by yourself, going to work and kind of having not so meaningful relationships at work, you know, kind of doing stuff at home, where you’re just kind of serving a purpose, you’re not really fulfilling a role in a purpose. I mean, like, you know, put the kids to bed, you do the dishes, and then you watch TV with your wife. And that’s it. Right? I think that creates a very isolated environment for a man when when men are generally people who like to do things that are fun, adventurous hunting, like to go out, hang out with their friends and do stuff like that. And some of that now is really being seen as like a toxic masculinity thing, which is, which is a disgrace. But I think that’s a big thing, because guys want to get back to that. And they’re almost shamed for having it. So I think that’s where it’s, it’s becoming this kind of as weird hot button topic that I never really thought it would be.

Aaron Tharp 4:38
Yeah, there’s I’ve always thought personally that, that when, when when men deal with or tackle things, shoulder to shoulder, rather than how we’re sitting now, which is kind of maybe more that therapeutic sense. Yeah. Like think you could look no further Then like playing on the same sports team, fighting for a championship, right? fighting wars, you’re on the same team. It’s all it’s all look and defend. And that’s, that’s how we navigate. That’s how we sort of move through things and conquer it right? Not sitting. Not that it’s not helpful, but it’s not solved by always doing this. Yeah, right. We almost do better when we’re in battle together, right? Would you agree or no,

Josh Simms 5:32
I agree. I mean, think about any aspect of life. For Navy fighter pilots. There’s never just one of them. There’s two of them, right? Yeah. And families function better when there’s two parents, I don’t care what anybody says there’s data to back that up. Right. And when teams are functioning together as one point towards the same goal, they’re usually successful winning teams. Now, when you see people were trying to do stuff on their own. And then once I got this, it’s, you know, things tend to fall apart, right? The House of Cards comes down, if you will. So that’s, that’s, I mean, like, yeah, I mean, like, everything is better when you have someone to walk shoulder and shoulder with, I mean, even like, people study in groups, they tend to do better. I mean, there’s so many other things you can point to, why.

Aaron Tharp 6:13
Why are we getting an isolation so easily? Why is that? Why? Why is that just a real easy Labyrinth to fall into? Because it happens to it’s happened to me? Yeah, you know, you kind of have you know, a mid 30s party days are behind me. You know, it’s like, it’s really easy to fall into. Right.

Josh Simms 6:31
Yeah. I think it’s a good question. It’s, I think it’s a it’s sometimes it’s a tough question to answer, because it is a kind of a case by case basis, but I feel even as you know, we’re in this kind of more touchy feely thing, it’s still men’s. We’re not received or heard very well. Like, if you do have issues, people are like, well,

Aaron Tharp 6:53
there’s no tolerance. Yeah. So it’s like, not none, but there’s just not enough. Sure.

Josh Simms 6:58
Yeah. But I also think the thing is, is that like, oh, you’re a man, and you’re gonna complain about your problems, or what about mine? It’s like, Okay, well, like if you want to talk, then, Listen, don’t just tell me that. And then. And so then when men hear that they’re like, Well, I’m not gonna talk about it with you, then like, why would I bother to talk about it, or, you know, they’re going to, they feel like they’re going to be judged, they’re going to be shamed, so they don’t open up and discuss it with other people. And I think we got into a little bit of that on our kind of mental health episode that we did a few weeks back. And and so I think that’s kind of the big thing, man is there’s no guys don’t really know the appropriate place to go the right platform to discuss that. And we see online, I mean, like, when you’re online, I don’t care what you feel like you’re in a group of people, but you are isolated, and you’re alone. You can put whatever you want on YouTube and record your video, but like, not doing that with anybody, you’re doing that for an audience that you don’t even you’re not even in front of. or you can tweet all you want, or Facebook, all you want, you’re doing that by yourself. And so I think like we actually are fooled from the social media into thinking that we’re part of a group or a tribe of people think that’s just so flimsy and not real. And then when it does hit the fan, and then you need that tribe. Gonna be there, man.

Aaron Tharp 8:09
Yeah, so how? How should these things? Well, first of all, there’s not that we can safely say there’s not enough of them. Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s undisputed. I feel like how, how should they really operate? If, if when we’re talking about what’s really good from just a men’s health or like a men’s standpoint?

Josh Simms 8:32
I don’t see the question. I think I’d asked you that, once you tell me what you think about that man?

Aaron Tharp 8:36
Well, again, as I mentioned, that’s just how we that’s how we contend with with the issues the best. Now, I think, in my, in my opinion, I think females are, are much better at sitting like this and going real deep, being very empathic, being very understanding to where other people are going to just more in touch with that, because it’s more feelings based, right? Where if, if men are fighting for something greater and bigger than themselves, and they’re doing it with people who have their back, who have protection, who they know are out for their best interest for the greater good, again, bigger than himself and it that for me, personally, and I know that you would feel the same way that gets you really fired up that gets you passionate. Oh, yeah. Because it’s like there’s you’re getting out of your own shit out of your own shoes out of your own thing and like you’re fighting for something that you can’t grasp today. To me, that’s where I feel like it’s most powerful. And you know, you mentioned it, where you’re, it’s hard. There’s nowhere to run, right? There’s nowhere to run and hide, because you can’t even do it from yourself when you’re in a tribe. It’s, if there’s if, if there’s a strong about a strong amount of accountability, which there should be your your Gonna get called out on things, people are going to spot your blind spots, spots, and it’s for your greater good. Yeah, for sure. That’s just always been where I’ve come from. So I have read a little bit jacked on him. And we talked about this a little bit for the episode. But have you? Have you heard of him? Have you known? I

Josh Simms 10:20
mean, I think we’ve briefly kind of talked about it before, we haven’t really gone in depth.

Aaron Tharp 10:25
So you mentioned finding communities online, and the manosphere would be one of those communities that you’d find in there, it’s, it can be pretty, pretty dark. His area of expertise is more on, it’s around masculinity really just specifically, but it’s about tribe, almost exclusively. His big thing about, and he’s written a couple of books that are really good, like the barbarians. Wait, I’ll send them to you. But anyway, the whole point here is, is that he’s he makes a distinction between being good at being a man. And being a good man, that those are, though closely related, though, they sound the same, that they are also very different in terms of how that how that is from day to day. Does that make sense? Yeah. So just from that alone, by being a, you know, the difference between being a good man and how to be a good man? Hearing that what would what would your response be? Like? How would you define either the both of those?

Josh Simms 11:34
Well, I think when people hear the word, like, being a good man versus like, a good, like, I, when I, when I, what I hear in my head is, you’re this kind of definition of a man. Right? And that’s, you’re good at being a man, right? Like, you go to work every day, and you support your family, and you feed them and you pay your bills, right? Like, that’s what the definition of a man kind of is, right? But then I think being a good man is more than that. Right? It’s, it’s taking the time to kind of put away your selfish desires, again, like us to do something for the greater good. And I think I think being a dad has opened my eyes to that just so many times, we’re like, Yeah, I would love to sleep in but my son loves it when we hang out on the couch on like, a Saturday morning, and we just just he mean and hanging out, because he usually wakes up a little bit early before everybody, you know, go out there with him or hang out and like, what are you gonna do man? Like, why just want to kind of hang out, watch the show together? And I’m like, sure, at 6:30 on a Saturday, I would have loved to slept until 7:30 or eight. But, you know, the hope for me is that my sacrifice of sleep is a lasting memory for him. And he’ll carry that on. It’s kind of a legacy. He’ll understand. Like, yeah, I remember my dad getting up with me and how important that was. I might suck in the moment. But like, I, to me, that’s part of, of being good man. Right? Or, you know, doing the things for a wife that she’s incapable or doesn’t want to do sometimes like that she’s not supposed to do like, that’s not some things just aren’t her role. And there’s some things that aren’t my role in fulfilling my end of the role, being consistent, and accepting her accountability. not resisting it. Right? When she calls me out on something like 99 times out of 100. She’s probably right. And it’s like, as a good man, you look at that you say, Okay, I’m gonna put my ego aside. She’s telling me something, she’s speaking to me, not just on the surface, but there’s something deeper in being in touch with that, again, I’m picking very specific parts of the married man or, or father, which a lot of people can’t relate to. But I think it’s, you can relate that like in friendship with people, too, right? of like, Hey, man, like Aaron’s a good man, because if I call him, he’s gonna, I can rely on him. If he’s not completely indisposed. Like, I can rely on him because he’s a man of his word. Every time I call him, he’s reliable. He’s honest, he’s truthful. He’s also compassionate in the times where I need him to be right. And that’s from a guy to a guy. I think that those are all kind of parts of being a good man, while being good at being a man is like, cool. you mow your lawn? Awesome.

Aaron Tharp 13:59
So he defines it a little differently. And you would have not known that. I don’t know. I think that’s okay. on the spot.

Josh Simms 14:04
No, that’s okay.

Aaron Tharp 14:05
Um, because his being a good man is what you said from from the start, how to be good at being a man he, he defines as I want to say that this is a general definition where it’s, it’s what everybody should accept. But it breaks down into four different character categories, which is mastering strength, courage, mastery in whatever your line of work is an honor. Yeah. So that’s how he makes the distinction between how to be a good man and, and how to be good at being a man. Yeah. It did a lot for me. My question about so my brother who’s four years younger than me, he just found out about it, his him and his girlfriend are expecting so we’re super excited for him and obvious You know, I’ve talked to him a lot about it. But one thing that he’s told me is that like, all the sudden he’s got, like, quite a bit more extra. He’s got a lot more energy. Yeah. And you kind of said that before about with your with your son. So my question for you is, you know, you get that’s kind of a primal urge that you’re feeling there when, cuz again, it’s not about you, you have young kids, you have little eyes looking at you like, Hey, Dad, you can show up today. So I’m not a dad, I really yearn to be if, if that’s okay. It’s what I really want almost more than marriage, to be honest. Yeah. What’s that been like for you to experience as a father.

Josh Simms 15:44
I mean, it’s, it’s, I guess, just from from fatherhood standpoint, it’s harder than you ever think it would be. But it’s also more rewarding than you think it can be. It’s a really interesting dynamic. And I think marriage is the same way too. And I think just to kind of to side wrote, on your point, a lie, I think a lot of guys want to be dads, but don’t want to be husbands. But if you’re a good husband, it’s way easier to be a good dad. Because Because if you and that’s if you do get married, that’s going to be your wife’s gonna be like, you know, I didn’t marry you to have kids, I married you, because I love you and want to spend when those kids are gone. We’re going to be sitting around together on the deck having drinks that Yeah, or 67. Right. And so fostering a healthy, strong marriage relationship. Makes parenting and being a dad so much easier, right? I’m getting cuz there’s a tribe aspect to that. Sure. Yeah. So that would be number one, I would say, a healthy, strong marriage makes parenting and being a dad way easier. Because you both understand each other. You know that you got somebody who’s got your back? Yeah. Right. Because you’re not going to have all the answers all the time, and you’re gonna struggle. But having kids is fine, because you get to see little parts of you and new parts of this person that is you, but you have no idea where that come comes from. But it’s also really cool, because then you’re like, Okay, awesome. I want to support this kid. Like, you always hear the stories of the people are like, and my grandpa was a doctor and my dad was a doctor. So I want to be a doctor. What the hell are you thinking? Like? What if you hate being a doctor? Like, what if you want to be an actuary? What if you What if you want to be like a guy who’s like a plumber, whether that’s where your joy is, right? And so for me, stepping back from what I do, like, I don’t care what my kids do, as long as they pursue it, you know, with passion and strength and all those things that you said about being a man. And they love it. Yeah, right. So I think a big part of that is is while it while I’m there to protect them, I have to take my hands off on him. I think Jocko Willink says one of the best things I’ve ever heard. He’s like, “you have to let your kids kind of brush up against the guardrails of failure”. Yeah, right. And I think as when we dive into leadership, that’s also what you have to do in leadership to kind of let people kind of get off the rails a little bit. And that’s a really hard part about is you don’t want your kids to get hurt. You don’t want to have to clean up the spilled milk. But like sometimes you got to like see, I’m sure it’s probably one of the hardest balances to strike.

Aaron Tharp 18:03
Yeah. Because it’s like, you know, you love him. You care about him. You don’t want to see him in pain. But you also can see forward. Yep. To see the the aftermath of kind of protecting our padding against all of that.

Josh Simms 18:16
Yeah, over time. Yeah. And you know, I mean, you and I both know people and we don’t know these people exclusive I’m saying but like, you know, somebody that was way too garden and helicopter parents

Aaron Tharp 18:25
You can spot it a mile away

Josh Simms 18:26
And you look at them when they’re adults. You’re like, yep, that’s like, all right, man. Well, this is how you get up every day and go to work and you show up on time. And you do you know, those it’s, it’s, it’s interesting, right? So you have to, again, keep them from falling off the ledge. But let them kind of bump into stuff and scrape and just the classic stuff. Let me get dirty, scrape their knees, yada, yada, all that stuff. So, but but it does come with this overwhelming sense of responsibility, because it’s literally from one day to the next. It’s a completely different ballgame. Right? You’re like, Okay, I’m just I’m just and it’s funny, because I have my daughter always calls me, Josh. Josh, Josh. I’m like, my name is Josh. But yeah, it is. Mike. No, my name is dad. Yeah, check. No, but your name Josh. I’m like, No, my name is dad. You gave me the name dad. And she looks at me. Oh, my goodness. I’m like, Yes. Oh, well, I wouldn’t be dad if you aren’t here. Right. And so it kind of blows her little mind when she thinks that also empowers her make sure like you know my kids like you guys make me dad. I’m not I wasn’t dad. Two seconds before we were born. Second you were born now. I’m dad. So but it comes with this overwhelming sense of responsibility of like, I have to protect this child and I don’t want them to be you know, I don’t want them to get in like the wrong stuff. drugs, alcohol, yada, yada. So I need to watch the way that I talk and watch the way that act and okay, but we got bills to pay but then I guess in college I don’t want to pay for like, so it’s it’s very easy to be overwhelmed by that. And I think it’s important to say that but then I think the aspect of what we’re talking about of tribe, the village to raise to raise your child is so important, right? Because none of us have all the answers. And nobody’s kids are going to be the same right? Every parent has different struggles. They’re different kids and having a tribe and a community that you rely on and lean on from that standpoint is super important. But then as a dad, having a bunch of other dudes who are dads is awesome. Like, I know a bunch of other guys. We’re all dads, and you get together and you’re kind of like, open up about the struggles with my kids. And he says, Yeah, yeah, bro. Dude, I know, my kid does the same thing, right? Yes. Yeah. It’s like, yeah, my kid pooped in the backyard also, and then we laugh and have a good time. Like, okay, good. My kids know, it’s just

Aaron Tharp 20:25
that once it’s almost like, I picture that as being like, the, the sound of like, a semi backing up in that break goes out. Yeah, cuz it’s just all this like pent up shit that you’re just not talking about? Yeah. And there’s all this fear. Like, if I let this out? Am I going to be judged? Like, should I even do it? Should I, you know, does anybody else experiences? Am I going to throw a wild card out there? There’s all this fear. And then then you call it out? And it’s it lets all the tension out.

Josh Simms 20:50
Yeah, it does. Because then it okay. But it’s the same. Yeah, everybody has the same problems. And that’s like another another tribe aspect, which will push back against so much as like religion or spirituality. Like, if you have a group of people, like, the Christian thing is confessing your sins, and nobody wants to do it. Right. But then when you do the guy grace, because I had the same problem. The exact same problem manually. Okay, cool. So it’s like, you get these men’s groups or these women’s groups, and you get these different things. And it’s like, people always kind of look at that as kind of this corny, cheesy thing, but you go and you stand in there. And like, you’re like, that dude went through that. And he’s telling everybody about it. And then you see all these dudes nodding their head, and then they all come together and talk about it. And everybody’s better for it. Right? It’s, it’s, it’s more than just their problems. It’s a collective group of people. Trying to be better. Yeah. And they can do it together. And there’s no, it’s a safe zone, right? know

Aaron Tharp 21:43
where to hide?

Josh Simms 21:44
Yeah, exactly. And there’s no judgment either.

Aaron Tharp 21:46
Right? Right. That make it you make it tolerant? Yep. Make it okay. Yeah, that’s that right there, I think is like the single biggest one of the single biggest things that like when it’s like shining the light on the dark parts of what we think about or, you know, what we’re chasing, you know, shining light on that and given exposure. Yeah, you could maybe make the argument that that’s vulnerability, quote, unquote. But honestly, it’s leadership. If the guy over there across the room for me, in this church basement, or wherever it’s sport group, went through that he’s okay with these 30 people who he doesn’t know at all. Completely know that. Like, I’m, I’m not, I’m not scared by that. I want to I want to be more like that. Yeah. Like, how do I get to the other side? Basically?

Josh Simms 22:35
Yeah. Yeah. Because I think it’s important to because if you can be candid and honest and like raw in those moments, like the people who will kind of go look at you sideways, they’re gonna be like, the weird ones, right? They’re gonna be ones that everybody’s like, now this was like, really good. Because this is you don’t know when people this is actually helping, right? Because sometimes people don’t want to talk about it. And then if you open up because most of the time, man, unless it’s like extenuating circumstances, most people have kind of gone through similar circumstances may have been a little different way. Some people haven’t. But still that story, right is important because it again, it builds cohesiveness within that tribe or that group. And it allows people to kind of rally around that person, and they can say, okay, man, we know that Ryan went through this. So like, we’re gonna make sure that Ryan’s good, like, let’s say, Ryan’s wife died at Christmas. So what are we gonna do for right around Christmas time, we’re gonna make sure we’re checking on him ready to go over, then we’re gonna bite him. We’re family, stuff like that, right? Now, if you have a guy like that, and they just isolate, you know, what’s going to happen, right. And most likely drugs, alcohol, or some form of some other form of addiction in the tribe can keep that in check and prevent that and give healthy outlet to it. And like, Hey, man, come over and eat with our family will cry with you, dude, like, because we know you and we’re going to, we’re going to go through that pain with you. And I don’t think there’s, again, because of the stigma of it out of the gate. People don’t see it that way. They don’t see that benefit. They just see a bunch of dudes sitting around talking. They’re probably they’re probably complaining and bitching about their wives. And, you know, well, no, maybe he’s talking about his wife. So how can he be a better husband, because she’s having some needs that are unmet. And he’s talking to guys who he sees they have healthy relationships. And you’re just catching up at the wrong time, right? And people just don’t, they don’t see the outcome of it, because they only see like the outside looking in. And it’s so unfortunate

Aaron Tharp 24:17
taking a surface level. Yeah. Now, I’m gonna make a statement that you mentioned, the isolation for, for men being very easy to slip into. That’s what we’ve been talking about how common that is. I can do it on my own, I can reach out for help. I’m just going to do this on my own. Now, I would make the argument that in a from a tribal sense when you’re when you’re talking about a parent, parental unit around a set like your kids, right, that it takes both, that the that the idea that came out of the 60s that women don’t need men Obviously, I think we’re we’re experiencing still experiencing the results of what that is. Yeah. You know, that I could do it on my own. I don’t need a man I can. So we have a lot of men that have grown up in single mother households. Yep. And they also not only, you know, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna quote stats, but, you know, it wouldn’t surprise me that their stats on both sides of that, and some of the things that you see in their ultimate downfall. So it’s really unfortunate, but you know, the isolation even for the female side, I think, probably not.

Josh Simms 25:38
I don’t it’s not good. No, it’s not healthy if they have no outlet, right. As far as calling Mom. Yes. It’s usually a pad of that there’s a familiar legacy pattern there. I mean, you can look at the stats, higher dropout rates, higher drug use Higher, higher, violent crime, suicide, marital abuse, suicide, all that stuff. Yeah. And I think that’s the thing that people don’t want to admit, is that I think the biggest pandemic in our country is fatherlessness. Right? Because if you’re a young man, and you grew up with a mom, like moms are great at being moms, right. Most of the time, there’s obviously bad parents and bad mothers everywhere, but like, but like, it’s not a mother’s job to be a father. Right? How can a mom be a good dad? You know, it’s like, that’s, it’s an unfair thing to put on somebody just like, I can’t be a good mom. Right? Like, my wife handles certain situations with my son that like, I’m either incapable love, or just don’t know how to do it. Like, I have a hard time being super compassionate. My wife can, she can provide that. Yeah. And and it’s like, Okay, well, this is now the time where I can take my hands off, because it’s probably the best thing to do in this in this moment, right? But also, when a young man grows up, and he’s 17. How do I go on a date? Like, what do I do? How do I treat a woman? How do I treat my wife? I’ve never seen it or had it modeled to me. How do I be a dad? Right? I mean, I grew up without a dad, and I struggle with all of those things. And it’s, I have no shame in saying it, because it’s the truth. And all that’s, that’s a big root of the struggles that I have as a husband as a father in just life stuff in general. I always tell people like, for me, I learned how to tie-Tie a Tie on YouTube. I didn’t have a dad to do it. Right. It’s not. It’s not a sob story. But it’s like,

Aaron Tharp 27:19
no, but it’s compelling. Yeah, but it does tell me, I’m just gonna say this. You arrived at this table? Free on your own accord? of all of that. Shit. Yeah. Which is that’s a monumental effort on your part. And it gets well under reported. Well, underlooked. Well, undervalued. Yeah. So I’ll take the opportunity to commend you for that. Because again, you arrive here having dealt with contended with and left all that shit behind you. And you’re at peace with it.

Josh Simms 27:49
Yeah. But I’ll tell you, right. That’s massive. But I’ll tell you right now, I didn’t do it on my own. Right. That’s the thing. Right. But that goes back to we’re talking about Yeah, my wife is awesome. She has been a great support system pro that she is one who encouraged me to go out and get an education. I think I needed one. I did it. And thankfully, I’m good at it. And her dad’s been awesome. He’s been a great support system. For me. He’s a dad I never had, right. But I do have thankfully, really good friends who are really good support system. My brothers are awesome. My mom is great. Like, it’s so it’s like, again, it’s while I did like the individual work that needed to be done. Right? Like I went to class, I did all this stuff, and yada yada, yada and right read the books, but it’s like, I couldn’t have kept that all together without the purpose that was greater than me. Yep. Because I mean, it’s like, it’s great to go to school and earn money and do something when you do with a pile of money if you had nobody to share it with. You know, like, I spend my money on raising my kids and doing all that stuff. And it’s, that’s worth it. Because I wouldn’t be able to do the things that we can do if I didn’t go through that journey. But I would have never finished with those people. If that makes sense.

Aaron Tharp 28:49
No, it totally does. It’s a communal effort takes takes a village

Josh Simms 28:53
It really does. I mean, I mean, you can try to do it on your own, but it’s gonna be hell on wheels. Most of the time.

Aaron Tharp 28:58
Yeah, those I mean some of the some of the most successful people you see on the seam on the news, they’re they’re on the Forbes top 50 loaded entrepreneurs, biggest companies, you know, apps you use. They got pockets and billions of cash. completely alone.

Josh Simms 29:14
Yep, miserable. Really guys like Jeff Bezos? Yes, this guy in the world made his wife the richest woman in the world because he couldn’t stop sending text messages to some girl and dick pics and stuff.

Aaron Tharp 29:24
I didn’t know that

Josh Simms 29:24
yeah, that’s why he got divorced man because he was there some other woman that’s like Dude, you like she was like and that’s the thing is like she was with them. I’m pretty sure like with him from from job right. And but the good thing is there are certain people who are like, their team. Yes, I see. And you see like a couple like Tom Hanks and his wife, right? They’re like a total Dynamo he could who knows like there’s some crazy

Aaron Tharp 29:46
Well, it’s just you can see you can see it. Yeah, I can see it. My my parents are there. My dad is in his early 60s. My mom is about to be 60 and what I’ve noticed it’s hard to watch your your parents age. Yep. It’s hard, it breaks my heart. But it’s part of life. And one thing that I’ve noticed about their marriage because again, in a very rare sense, they’re still together. That’s very uncommon. Yeah. What I’ve noticed is that there’s a lot more gratitude and appreciation as they’ve gotten older for each other, for sure. You know, it’s more, we’re not going to sweat the small stuff. It’s more Well, I’m so happy that we stuck this out. And it’s, you know, I kind of choked up talking about To be honest, because it’s, you can see it, there’s a silver lining on it.

Josh Simms 30:32
Yeah. Because I think everybody, every guy has that. And that’s the tough part about being a guy is like, again, it’s hard being a woman to I don’t want always discount that. But like, being a guy, when you meet a girl, and you fall in love with her, you open up that you’re totally vulnerable, for the most part, for a certain while, because otherwise women like I don’t want some clothes, for sure. You know. So it’s like, so you in those intimate moments, right, you are completely wide open, and then a woman falls in love with that part. But then as we get married and things may be changed a little bit, sex is less often you have kids, and then it’s even less often that we start thinking about ourselves, and then it’s like, you get guys get better. Again, they don’t think about the you have a family, right? It’s not all about like what your needs or desires are. It’s like, there’s, you’re raising a family, right? You’re raising adults, and you’re doing all those different things. But what guys don’t see as on the on the back end of that marathon is like what your parents have now. You got like a friend. You got to show watching buddy, get a drinking, buddy. You know, you have a partner everything right? All that stuff, where it’s like, this is what like, this is also the other part where we’re married for. We’re just married to be 25 to 30. Before we had kids, and then oh, gosh, I got blindsided because I didn’t know was gonna be live like this with kids. And then that’s when people will get tripped up. We’ve, we have friends with we’ve seen that happen too, and so on and so forth. And you just see it because the expectations are not they’re not healthy expectations. Give you’re married with kids and you expect wrapped up sexually every day. You’re so delusional I can’t even begin to tell you well, yeah. Yeah, you’re

Aaron Tharp 32:05
absolutely right. And when, when, when you’re caught up in your own need, yep. You have a need that’s not being met, you have a need that’s not being met. Yeah. And it involves nobody else. So because you don’t involve anybody else. You’re not open about it. And you’re not transparent about it. You’re not vulnerable in those moments. You’re not letting other people call you out on your Bs, and you’re not you’re not letting the walls down. You have a need that’s not being met. And you’re the only one that suffers.

Josh Simms 32:37
Yeah. Well, I mean, you can make other people suffer, but you’re doing it because of your problem. Right? You’re right. And so in that, but at the end of the day, it compounds on you. Yep. In the wrong way. Yeah. But when you reverse that, and you’re like when I really do a good job of focusing on my energy towards my wife, and loving her, right and not having expectations of something and just like unconditionally trying to meet her needs and speaking love to her. Right that again, that marriage tribe portion of it. I mean, Jesus, she’s all good. She does better in every aspect, right? Her energy’s better her boots better she’s she’s more patients with the kids definitely more patients for me, right? And if we practice that right thing, that’s great because that’s it that’s the hard part. That’s their expectation in marriage, though right? Your expectation is not like okay, you cool you went to work today you did this you did that. I made your dinner and then we’re gonna have sex and then we’re gonna go to bed and jewelry. But that is not that’s not a healthy relationship at all right? There’s no relationship there. That’s just friends, the benefits remains with benefits, whatever you want to call it, right? And so I think there’s I mean, I think that the cool thing about we’re talking about is that we’re not just talking about a tribe of guys right? There’s all these different tribes that you have there’s a tribe of people that work right begin to pull in the same direction with a common goal you can be super successful. tribe marriage tribe friends tribe have something like even guys who are like I do jujitsu twice a week with the same 12 guys. Well sometimes hang on every now and then but like when we’re there, we’re all pulling towards the same goal. Yeah, right. And it’s a different it’s just there’s all these different aspects of tribe that we can and that may not be exactly what you’re talking about, but it is Yeah, but but I think there’s there’s more opportunity than just the boys club, right? Yeah. “Hey, Aaron. And you and I and then we’re gonna get like three more friends we’re gonna go to Billy-O’s again tonight and Yep, so the barn just have a few drinks and just talk about work. That’s, that’s there’s no me buffalo steam in a kind of unhealthy way. But there’s no value. You get nothing really out of that? I think so. I mean, I don’t know if you feel differently about that. But

Aaron Tharp 34:39
no, you’re you need you need some kind of real feedback. a barometer. Yeah. Something to reflect off of a little bit. Because if it’s all your way, and you get it, how you want it and you do what you want, and you don’t answer to anybody, and you have it exactly how you want it if you’re done with it, and so on. On the next You have real problems. Yeah. How fulfilled are those people? massively unfulfilled? Yeah.

Josh Simms 35:06
I mean, it’s because that’s, you see people like that. And the question I was gonna ask him is like, what’s enough? Like that need from a money standpoint? Like, and not from a staff standpoint? Like when do you feel like your emotional bucket is like happy full

Aaron Tharp 35:19
fulfilled? Yeah.

Josh Simms 35:21
Like, not everybody’s is full 24 seven, right? But like, when do you reach a peak? We go, man, this is great. Like, like, I’m here with like, some people that I really love. We’re just hanging, we’re doing our thing. Like, this is awesome. Yeah. Are you just going should be doing something else, which is, you know, whatever. Like, it’s like, it’s almost like torture to be, like, not be able to sit back and enjoy the things in your life when you’re always just so the Strength Finders have ever done that before? Sure. So my number one strength is futuristic. Alright, so I’m always thinking about like, how can we do the next thing? Right? Very, very.

Aaron Tharp 35:56
We share that. What else? What are the other ones I have?

Josh Simms 35:58
I can’t remember. I haven’t done it like seven years.

Aaron Tharp 36:01
It would not surprise you. ‘WOO’ was one of mine.

Josh Simms 36:04
But ‘WOO’ was not one of mine. Okay, but I think it is because I don’t know it feels like

Aaron Tharp 36:08
“Winning Others Over” ….futuristic, communicative. I think it was one

Josh Simms 36:17
A communication communication empathy. ‘WOO’.

Aaron Tharp 36:21
Includer was another one. Yeah. I just like bringing them in. Winning them over and making them be fun. Yeah. What were all the other ones that you had?

Josh Simms 36:30
I can’t remember

Aaron Tharp 36:31
Interesting.

Josh Simms 36:32
But but the futuristic aspect that I was kind of referring to is that and I have to keep it in check. Because I always tell my wife, like if I don’t keep that in check, like I’m a midlife crisis. And I’m and she laughed about it. And it’s funny, but like, it’s true, right? Because I’m always thinking about the next thing, I can never enjoyed the thing that we just did. Yeah, so I have to slow that down, and use it in a healthy manner. from a standpoint of like, okay, focus on the now. And then when we complete the Now, let’s talk about the future. If there’s a map, that’s great, but I can’t think about point D when we’re on a otherwise this is just going to get lost. And I’m never going to enjoy this time. I have to do that with my kids too. Because it’s like, as they get older, things get a little bit easier in some aspects harder and other aspects, but it’s like, I just want to get a B three. And she’s only gonna want like daddy to do her bedtime for so much longer. Even though it’s hard sometimes. Like, I’m sitting by 12 or 13. I mean, sitting on the couch, like hey, you know, dad come up, reach some stores, like no, you know, like, just so that’s that’s the futuristic thing where I think it could crack back. But my point is, is like, again, that isolated person who’s only kind of thinking for themselves for about themselves and what they can get out of it. There. I think that’s just what they suffer from. Right? We’ll give that with those fun, but what can we do to take it to the next level? They never get that fulfillment. But when you’re with a group of people, you can celebrate your success, others success, and in the group as a whole.

Aaron Tharp 37:56
Yeah, it’s it’s it’s an absolute strength, though, and I feel like it from a from a man’s perspective, being futuristic is we’re hardwired that way for sure.

Josh Simms 38:05
Yeah, but it can be I guess my point was, is that it can be dangerous. Sure. Oh, God can lead to a double edged sword. Yeah, big time. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Tharp 38:12
I mean, we’re goers, doers, achievers, and we have got to be it’s just that’s just the way we’re we’re always going. Going To Show have to show restraint against that urge. Yep. Awesome, man. Well, hey, fellas. If you’re struggling, go out and find some people. Go out and find a group of your own tribe people that you like, man, be mindful of who you welcome into your tribe. That’s huge. For sure. Yeah. You can’t just let anybody in. This isn’t just gay. Come Come aboard. Be mindful of who you got. And if you don’t find one, make your own start. One be the leader of one.

Josh Simms 38:51
Yeah. And I think I think a big part about that is what do you like? Because I guarantee if you like something, there’s other people, we’re gonna like that same thing. So don’t just be like, well, “I got no, I don’t have anything. I don’t have anything.” What? Do you play an instrument? Go from a band? Oh, yeah. Right. And go meet with other musicians. Cool. Would you like to cook? You can probably find about 10,000 other people who really like to cook, right? I mean, it doesn’t have to be just like, some special club where you do just this very exclusive thing. And, oh, we just we meet every Wednesday night. And it doesn’t have to be that like, it can be anything that you like from money, finances, right? hobbies, jujitsu, guitar, all that stuff. There’s a group for everybody. Yep.

Aaron Tharp 39:33
And don’t be afraid to plant your flag and say I’m starting. I’m doing it. This is why I like and this is what I’m about. So come aboard. Like that’s all we got. Thanks for listening guys. Take care.

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