Episode #8
Coaching with Ciarán Halligan Part 2
In this episode:

In a two-part series we welcome back, Life Coach Expert Ciarán Halligan. In this episode, Aaron and Ciarán talk about the many different levels of fear that people stress out about. The men also discuss how being around supportive people can make a positive change. Email ciaran@fruehlingcoaching.com for more information or learn more about coaching at https://www.fruehlingcoaching.com.

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Show Highlights
  • Stress and Fears
  • Professional Coaching
  • Tribe and Supporting Communities


Aaron Tharp 0:00
The information provided in this episode is provided for informational purposes only, and is not intended to replace professional medical advice. If you have questions regarding your health, please contact your medical provider. All right, welcome back. We are back again with Kieran Halligan here at Men Explained. So we covered a lot in in our first episode and just seemed right to come back and deliver you guys some more good. So Kieran has just a huge heart. It’s clear that he’s very passionate about what he’s doing and and the efforts that are being made to help people find their their path, we did discover that he has a real interest in real passion to help men and he does actually kind of had notes and some things kind of geared up to create his own podcast to do the exact same thing that we’re doing, which is really cool. A little bit of destiny, in that I guess you could say. So you read a passage from a journal that that you had shared the other day that you wrote a few mornings ago. I’d love it if you could share that with with our listeners.

Ciarán Halligan 1:11
Yeah, it’s actually quite interesting. So I probably you realistically, I might have written it about a month ago. So it’s it was a really nice kind of synchronicity. That’s that’s, that’s shown up here. So

Aaron Tharp 1:24
I have not a COVID. That’s not a coincidence. That is destiny.

Ciarán Halligan 1:27
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I don’t believe in coincidences. So every morning just just for people who are listening every single morning, and this falls into my morning routine. So I mentioned on the part one about how I I get out from my Walkman incantations, my cold shower journaling is also a part of my morning routine. And something that I that I’ve had felt on my heart for probably for months and months and months. And it follows around this idea that just this weird kind of feeling that’s kind of being driven into the world about how men are like toxic and bad and, and that sort of stuff. And it’s just not true. It’s it’s crazy that people would blanket an entire gender of people in in a single under a single word and a negative word for that point. And so I have felt very, very strongly about this. And what I was journaling to get back to your initial question. So when I joined, I just I just write as quick as possible. I don’t stop. I don’t try to make sense, but I just kind of follow whatever dependents gone. So this is what I wrote down. I want to make a podcast, I want to help men and the name that actually came to me was reclaiming masculinity or unrestricted masculinity. I’m not quite sure what it’s got to be called. But maybe it won’t even happen. Who knows? But awesome, great. So it’s, I want to help men become men. They’re not toxic. They’re not aggressive. It’s not bravado, and it’s not alpha. It’s not victim. It’s not fearful. It’s not a wuss, and they’re not afraid. I want to empower them. Make them a strong support of caring, self respecting, firm, reliable, non apologetic, business makers, family, man, a community of strength, stand up, step up, be counted, protect the weak, become great husbands find the truth and overcome your guilt. Less opinions, and just more facts help men flourish. So what do I need? I need people who know about health who Inaba finance and noble investing, they know but strength DGM knowledge, real estate, making better decisions, fashion, so they look well take care of yourself, your mindset, your knowledge, martial arts, and celebrate men. And the people who kind of came to mind who was thinking about this as Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, and the Navy SEALs, successful businessman and Grant Cardone. And then in havens around success, high performance, self development, cars, guns and sports.

Aaron Tharp 3:49
If that it doesn’t capture about everything that we’re about here to, I think it just speaks to the broader need for these conversations. So it’s really cool in a very on unplanned way that we’ve came together, you know, with the same motivations to give back. It’s the reason why we’re having this conversation today. So a big part of getting to that place becoming a more integrated giving man of high value, right? You got to surround yourself with the right people. That’s so crucial. You guys have a law of exposure that you guys really work with. And can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, so

Ciarán Halligan 4:38
the law of exposure is one of the most important things that people need to understand. Because it’s a double edged sword or double headed snake, whatever you want to call it. You got to tame this thing. And it’s basically the idea that we become those who we surround ourselves with, right or who we expose ourselves to But that’s risky because it means not only if we expose ourselves to successful people will emulate them will become like them. But if we expose ourselves to people on the other end of the spectrum will be will become like them. So you know the expression misery loves company, right? Oh, yeah, so I told you, right, it’s, it’s, it’s a horrendous cycle that people get into. So the law of exposure, it’s, it’s been an idea that’s been around forever. And you need to be very, very careful about who it is you expose yourself to, because you do emulate their way of being right. And he grabbed, you gravitate towards their level of success, and you tend to achieve the same results that they will achieve. You know, so we will simplify it down to you become the sum of the five people who you’re around, right. So if you look at the five people who you are around, and let’s look at it from a financial perspective, if you’re surrounded by five people who are kind of not really trying, they’re just kind of making ends meet and not really achieve. And that’s not going to inspire you to become a better person. It’s just not. But if you move into a circle, where people are high flying, high performers, like you will automatically kind of gravitate into that sort of person. So the law of exposure is absolutely critical in order to understand and just to live a better life. You know, it improves your game, if you look at tennis players, or soccer players, right? You know, but we love for football. So they don’t play against the worst players they can find. They want to play against the best players they can find. Because it ops your game. And you start to understand the little nuanced little subtleties to make the difference. That’s what you get from those people who are operating at higher levels. Wherever you stick with the people who are operating at lower levels, you’re not you’re going to kind of gravitate into that sort of mindset. So it’s incredibly important. And, and it doesn’t just, like count for the people who you spend your time with physically, it also counts for what you watch on TV did the social media that you surround yourself to. So you got to be very, very careful. Because if you’re watching social media, or if you’re surrounded by people who complain, who are victims who are negative, that will affect you on levels that you will never ever be able to recover from. Because you’re surrounded by it’s deadly in terms of growth on a personal level.

Aaron Tharp 7:24
Yeah, the the expression that you participate in what you observe, and without even realizing on an unconscious level. And you mentioned something about tennis. Last summer, I got a chance to play some golf a couple of times with some guys that were way better than I was. And I got stumped. So humbly, I had to take my I had to take my medication. But I will say that on the second half of summer, my game was amplified much better. Because in those moments, even though I was getting my butt kicked, I raised the stakes. And it was because I was surrounded by a better group of golfers. I realized that it’s a sport, but it further clarifies and solidifies your point, which is that it does matter. And we have to be very careful with who we let in and out of our circle. Yeah, yeah. So when that can go the wrong way. When we get around negative people and negative circumstances, we tend to get pretty negative, right? And we develop fears. Mm hmm. You guys have seven different fears that you go through and that you help people. Yeah, content and breakthrough. So I was hoping you could go through the fears. And we can we can chat about each one. So seven types of fears.

Ciarán Halligan 8:42
Yeah, yeah. So just to kind of follow up on that last point you made, because I think for this podcast, in particular, there’s an added element, which is worth mentioning. The law of exposure affects you, like you said, on every single level. So if you want to be a fighter, like a really good dad, be around people who are really good, that’s right, if you want to be a great husband, be around man who are great husbands. And you’ll automatically kind of take that on board. So that that’s something that I feel very strongly about, because I think it needs more reinforcing these days. And so that was just a just an extra thought I had. But in terms of up to seven fears. So I read a book, my father in law actually got me a book by a guy called Darren Donnelly. And it’s called victory favors to fearless. And it’s a really great personal development book because it’s written in fiction format about a boxer. Right? And it’s about overcoming the seven different fears that he has. So what I’ll do is I’ll go through each fear individually, and just kind of give you an idea of how maybe people can overcome it. Or maybe we can discuss each fear individually. But the first one and a really common one that people struggle with is they fear what people think about them. Yep, you know, and it’s completely normal. I feel like maybe maybe it goes back to when, like 1000s and 1000s of years ago when we were all part of tribes. And you were so dependent on everyone else in our tribe, that if someone taught that you weren’t good enough, you’re in serious trouble, because it’s only 12 people in that tribe. And if they kick you out, you’re done. Just now 711 around the corner, I thought you’d go and buy a box of cereal, right? If you’re kicked out of your door. And so the fear of what people think or feel is really deeply ingrained within us.

Aaron Tharp 10:29
It is and to add on that, I think that our metric for that now is very different than it was in tribal times. Now, it’s, it’s seen as how many followers how many likes do you have? How many retweets do you get? How popular you are on social media, that speaks to nothing about the kind of person that you are, how valuable you are to your family, to your community, which that there you should care about? Those are the people that you should care what think about you, not, you know, the amount of likes and subscribers and that means that counts for shit. What really matters is the content of your character. You should care what those people think.

Ciarán Halligan 11:13
Yeah, now, I agree with that completely. Social media has paralyzed people, because they see everyone else live in these perfect lives. And the truth is, no one is living a perfect life. You know, it’s all just this crazy illusion that everyone’s living. And, and the truth is, success is not measured on a number of times, someone doubletap your pager to give you a haircut, success shall be measured. And I say short, I don’t like the word short, because it feels like it puts people under pressure. But I guess success is best measured, when you measure based on stuff that’s in your control. And that’s the fact that you posted that picture that you were afraid to post that you did that Instagram Live that you are so afraid to do because you’re taught people will judge you that success. Right? Um, if you can reframe that, from needing someone else to do something in order for you to feel good about yourself, and in a way that if I do something, I feel good about myself, man, the world is your oyster. It’s just like, it’s endless, what you can do. And the truth as well as like, social media is a great one. People don’t really care about what you’re doing. They care about you, right? And they want you to be well, they want you to succeed, they don’t really care about what you’re doing. So if you have a conversation with someone, they’ll ask you, how are you doing? What’s going on? You know, it’s like I’m doing all right, I’m doing X or Y, as long as the kind of ticks the box that, okay, they’re doing okay? Don’t forget about it in a minute. If you tell them, oh, man, I’m really struggling, I’m under pressure. I don’t know how to pay my bills, you’ll get a totally different reaction. There’ll be they’ll remember you 234 hours later on, because they know that you need help. You know, but people have lost this on social media because they think that they need to portray this perfect life. And because everyone’s portraying a perfect life, no one really cares about how people is doing. They just want to know that you’re doing okay, and you look like you’re doing okay, so I’m not going to reach out to you. It’s really, really unhelpful.

Aaron Tharp 12:57
It is and in that whole idea of needing somebody else’s validation. Yeah, if your post you’re giving just to get that’s horsetrading, that’s a transactional Instagram post. There’s no humanity in that at all. You’re looking to fill a unfillable bucket for validation. So yeah, that’s a that’s a huge one. What’s the next one?

Ciarán Halligan 13:21
So the next one, is that the fear of change? Right? Oh, yeah. What I struggle with deeply when I left the Hospitality Group, and then I went out on my own coaching. Man, that was a tricky one. Because you’re dealing with uncertainty if people don’t like uncertainty, right. And I feel like it goes back a lot of things I feel like are rooted in historical contexts, and uncertainty of where your food is going to come next. Right? Because back in the day, let’s go back to being in our tribe. Again. There was no unemployment, right? There was no, no Uncle Sam giving you a handout when you’re struggling. So it’s either either you figure it out, and you make your food or debt. Right. And that’s a pretty pretty, pretty rough edge to live on. Right? So I feel like that’s still part of an issue is that people are so afraid of change, because they’re afraid of the worst outcome. And what really happens in those circumstances is that your brain, which is your greatest asset, but also your greatest challenge, it knows your deepest, darkest secrets and fears, right? More than anyone else on the planet. So it will go straight to what is Aaron’s most biggest fear? I’m going to tell him about that if he if he starts to make this change, and will stop them from doing it. Because right now what we have is good. We’re certain we’re comfortable. I noticed X or Y coming in, I noticed food in the fridge. But if he makes a change, that might all change, you know so the way to overcome it is it’s not even trying to defeat the fear. It’s just trying to build up courage.

Aaron Tharp 14:46
Yeah, the the whole idea of being very comfortable and safe. I think I don’t know if you’ve ever read any of Mark Manson’s books. The most recent one that he wrote about hope is very good, because it really illustrates the idea that we’re living at a time when we get it exactly how we want it, the temperature that we want it the time that we want it. And if we don’t like it, we can kick it to the side, we get the next thing, just how we like it. And yet, at the, at the same time that that is so possible and so accessible. We are also experiencing rampant depression and anxiety and issues. And I think those two things cannot be separated. They’re they’re so intertwined. So that fear of change. Yeah, it is very primal. Yeah. But getting it just how you like it so comfortable with ease. It’s not the way to go.

Ciarán Halligan 15:43
It’s not man, you got to embrace fear. It’s, it’s like imposter syndrome, right? It’s like, afraid of being the imposter in the room. And, you know, here’s a little nugget to help maybe help people. If you’re struggling with imposter syndrome, it’s actually a great sign that you’re making growth, right? You’ve stepped into an uncomfortable zone. So reframing, I call it growth syndrome, because it’s a feeling of growth, when you call it growth syndrome, instead of imposter syndrome, gives it a totally different swing, you know, so now I love to feel it. I’m like, ah, doing this, this is different, you know, to me, whereas beforehand, those Lego kind of fearful, scared in the back of the room, sitting at the back wouldn’t put my hand up. But now it’s the total opposite. So like, I feel like calling it imposter gives it a negative connotation that makes people not wanting, whereas it’s actually it’s the greatest signal that you’re progressing as a human being that you’ll probably get.

Aaron Tharp 16:34
Yeah, and it should not be overstated, that you’re now seeking it out. Yeah. Instead of restricting it and avoiding it and putting walls up. You’re now like, oh, where can I get a little bit more of that? You know, you’re starting to break down some barriers. Yeah. It’s

Ciarán Halligan 16:47
a great, cool,

Aaron Tharp 16:48
yeah. Yeah. So fear of change. What, what’s what’s next,

Ciarán Halligan 16:53
and the next one is making the wrong decision.

Aaron Tharp 16:55
wrong to say, our nobody wants to be wrong, where everybody’s right.

Ciarán Halligan 16:58
Now, yeah, it’s a it’s a scary thing. Because, you know,

Aaron Tharp 17:03
what, if

Ciarán Halligan 17:04
I can’t undo, undo the damage, you know, or what if, what if it’s not as good over there as as I have it right now. Or maybe where I have right now, it’s not so bad. And you know, maybe it’s worse over there. And fear of making the wrong decision is is debilitating for people. So I always feel like the best way to overcome that. One is give yourself a timeframe. Right? So when like, because the problem is people might take it will last forever, you know, so it’s like, give yourself a timeframe, and months, four months, six months, a year, whatever, it’s, it depends on what it is you’re working on. But if you give yourself a timeframe, well, then it’s like, Alright, I give it I’m given this a chance to see if it really worked on.

Aaron Tharp 17:43
Then the next one we have is FOMO. fear of missing. Yeah, fear of missing out.

Ciarán Halligan 17:50
This one, this is a great one, because people are so convinced that their life could be better, and that it’s not great right now that they’re constantly afraid that they’re going to get stuck, where they’re at right now, where they’re watching everyone else progress. And it’s just, it creates an emotion and people they respond emotionally, and it’s just it’s very, very, it’s reactive instead of being responsive. So it’s just, it’s the most It’s crazy. I see it a lot. I see it a lot. And it’s just like, it’s it’s really unhealthy. So yeah, FOMO fear of missing now.

Aaron Tharp 18:24
It does make for a pretty efficient sales tactic. I have to be honest, I do it is the strategy that I use in sales. Yeah. But in terms of personal approach, yeah, fear of missing out, that’s your brain can wander.

Ciarán Halligan 18:41
Yeah, you know what, that’s a good point, too. So you can use it in a way that’s actually quite productive. If you bring someone’s attention to what life so if you don’t make this change, life in five years will still be the same. It’s not okay for you. Right? And it’s not, because if we’re not progressing or dead, that’s, it’s like a heart monitor, right? If it’s dead flat, you’re dead. Whereas if you have that spikes, well, then you’re alive and you’re living. So it’s a it’s a very similar idea. Yeah. If you use it in that perspective, I actually because it can be quite helpful.

Aaron Tharp 19:09
Yeah, no, I might the company and the product and it’s an amazing place. It’s not manipulative approach, but because it does work. But no, good analogy. So fear of missing out, then, what do we got next?

Ciarán Halligan 19:23
There’s a very, very deep one that gets a lot of people and absolutely core level and it’s the fear of not being good enough.

Aaron Tharp 19:31
Yeah, inadequacy, inadequacy moment.

Ciarán Halligan 19:33
Yeah, it’s like, I’m not good enough to do X or Y, who am I to even start? You know, and it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a relatively easy one to overcome, but it’s also very deep rooted. And you can always ask someone when you weren’t good enough driver when you started, but you started, you know, and you could draw parallels to occasions in life when you were not good enough at something. But you overcame right? So you have that inner strength to do it. You just need to tap in and get that fire lit.

Aaron Tharp 20:03
Mmm. You’re we’re covering all the bases.

Ciarán Halligan 20:05
Yeah, tomorrow.

Aaron Tharp 20:06
Yeah, for sure. But no, this is good stuff. So, next we got fear of failure.

Ciarán Halligan 20:15
Yeah, fear of failure and the fear of being permanent. Right, right. Because people think that if I don’t make it, I’m a failure. Well, your own your failure, when you give up, I truly believe that from the bottom of my heart, every time that you don’t have success, it’s a great opportunity to reassess, learn and develop. And that’s progress. But if you give up or then you can consider a failure. You know, so it’s only permanent if you choose to, to make it so.

Aaron Tharp 20:42
Yeah. And it’s, it’s that it’s, it’s stripping, who you are away from the results. You are not the person because you failed. Because the failure doesn’t define who you are, or your capabilities or your possibilities. It’s easy. You’re wrapping up too much of who you are in the results. And you’re you’re a lot bigger, and you’re more complex than just a result. Last one,

Ciarán Halligan 21:13
yes, sir. So the last one is when everything is going great. You know, you’ve you’re hitting it win after win after win. And you have a fear of being do a setback, right? This can’t go on forever.

Aaron Tharp 21:24
So when is it? When’s it all gonna come? crumbling? Yeah, yeah,

Ciarán Halligan 21:27
fine. Am I gonna be found out? You know, yeah. So it’s, it’s, it’s an interesting, you know, kind of thing that people like deal with when when things are just going too well, they’re just, they’re ready for it to fall apart. And we can reframe the potential setback to right. So like things, things won’t be epic forever. You know what I mean? Like, you have ups and downs, and it goes back to that idea of the heart monitor, you don’t want it to be constantly going well, because then you don’t really appreciate the UPS without the downs. But you can reframe the setbacks as they call them into opportunities to learn, adapt, and be even better the next time around, and that that’s what I would work with someone where it’s like, okay, when that does come around, that’s fine. Let’s, let’s figure it out. Let’s, what’s the lesson within that, you know, and lessons are what make us and what make us develop into the people that we want to be, and then we can pass those lessons down to our family and our kids, you know, and we’re leaving the world in a little bit of a better place because of a

Aaron Tharp 22:20
hell yeah, and it’s, these are very primal urges. These are very primal fears that we have. I’m also reading a book on Tiger Woods. And it’s few years old, but he’s talks in there about fear. It’s like, it’s Oh, it’s still there. That’s how I know I’m alive, right? You’re never going to squash it or diminish it, you can’t run from it, it’s just facing it moving through it. So I think it’s really amazing that you take a very detailed approach into each different fear, help people get past them so they can achieve the results that they want. Yeah. Amazing stuff, my brother. Now, shifting gears here just a little bit, and I know you’re busy guy, so we’re gonna we’re gonna wrap things up here shortly. But as a, as a soccer fan, or a global football fan, I’d like to get your take on maybe the Super League explained, you’re gonna get your own,

Ciarán Halligan 23:22
you’re going to get me going. Now this is this is it, we’re going to need another hour. So I find this one is a tricky one to explain here to a US audience because football and our soccer in the UK is very different to in the States, because in the States, the franchisors can just open move, right? Whereas in the UK, they can’t. There are institutions and these communities are almost like the college universities. Right? You’re not going to take a Penn State and move it across the country. There would be over imagine there would be chaos, maybe you would know better. No, but but let me give you kind of a background as to what’s going on. So these, there’s a couple of American guys, right? Just the Glazer family. And there’s FSG, who on air, the Red Sox, they own manchester united and they own Liverpool Football Club. Right. And they’ve never connected really with the fans. And they have gone and done the most craziest thing. So let me try and do the old switcheroo. And I’ll try and reverse a few. So imagine someone from the UK came in and bought let’s say the Packers, the Dallas Cowboys, the New York Giants. And I don’t know the 40 Niners to for whoever the four biggest NFL teams are right now. And let’s imagine for this case that over here at the NFL has dribble has money to drip our ripples down into college football into high school football, right? So they’re all kind of reliant on the NFL. Now imagine these English guys came in, bought them for clubs, and then decided that they are no longer going to play in the NFL. They’re going to create our own tournament, where they are always in the playoffs. of this brand new tournament no matter how good or how bad they are, and they might let one or two of the other NFL teams in because they’re being so kind, right? I don’t know how that will go down over here. But in Europe, it created absolute chaos because like, everything is based on merit, right? If you’re not good enough, you do not get into the European Champions League nail all of a sudden Manchester, you know that no matter how good or how bad they are, they’re in the top competition every single year. So it’s taken away all the excitement about what’s the point, you know, imagine the Yankees are automatically in the World Series every single year in the playoffs every single year, it just weakens the whole competition. And not only they will never play in the Champions League ever again, right, which means like Manchester United had a team die. Literally the plane crashed while they tried to play in the Champions League back in the in the late 50s. So there’s all that history is no dead, because they’re never playing the tournament ever again. It’s, it’s just, it’s just the craziest, craziest decision that I’ve ever seen. But the way the English fans came ill and created absolute chaos, and got this turned around is just, it’s it’s the greatest moment of people coming together, which I think we need on the planet more than ever open division is at an all time high. Everybody came together, no one was standing for it. It was a beautiful team. But these owners of Manchester United Liverpool, their absolute, they’re just like on a different planet, they have no connection to the sport to the fans, to the league knotting. And what resulted in are the lower league teams so like to use my example. And it would have cost and like the high school football teams, and the college football teams to all go out of business because that that money that ripples down to them would have been gone forever. It was crazy, absolutely crazy. It’s the biggest, biggest story to ever happen in soccer, it’s a

Aaron Tharp 26:55
well, so here’s what we’re gonna do, we’re gonna we’re gonna end today. Because you and I could spit ball a couple hours, a couple days, you are without a doubt going to be back. And maybe this was the topic that we bring you on about, cuz obviously you’re very passionate about you got a lot to share. And, you know, let’s be fair, we got a lot to learn over here in this space. So I want to first acknowledge you for the work that you’re doing and helping people find intention and passion and doing it in a really meaningful way. So I want to acknowledge your efforts there. And also extend our appreciation for your time tonight. Where can people our listeners go to find out more about you and how they could work with you?

Ciarán Halligan 27:46
Yeah, absolutely. So I am I have Instagram, LinkedIn, and our if you if you really want to, like get to know us and kind of work with us and find out more information about us, check out frieling coaching.com. Sarah frailing, who is the lady who runs the group, she’s known for having an incredibly high bar of people who she aligns with. And so if if a meaningful, more productive, happy, and positive, impactful life is what you’re looking to create or as a leader, you’re looking to excel and or as an entrepreneur you need, you need support and you want to be a really high performer and, and find that balance between like work and your life at home. Absolutely contact us. frieling culture calm will help you transform your life so that your impact ripples further faster. You know, amen.

Aaron Tharp 28:33
I’m transformed just from this conversation. Likewise. So, yeah, sure. Yeah. Likewise, my brother and you’ll hear from us again, thank you so much again for your time. This has been this has been a real honor.

Ciarán Halligan 28:46
Pleasure, absolute pleasure. Thanks. Cheers.

Aaron Tharp 28:51
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